Rotten John Lydon

Mel C

Lady Gaga

Dishonorable mentions: Mel C., Patti Smith, Amy Whinehouse, Lady Gaga, Cher, Pink, Fergie, Barbra Streisand, Janis Joplin, Mick Jagger, Rod Stewart, Adele, Marylin Manson, Iggy Azalea, Shane MacGowan, Iggy Pop, Michael Stipe, Courtney Love, Mariah Carey, Lily Allen, Gene Simmons, Barry Manilow, Charlotte Church, Ellie Goulding, Katy Perry, Madonna, Chad Kroeger, Garry Glitter, Bono, Dee Snider, Serj Tankian, PJ Harvey.

As you can see, I've used the more general definition of the word "singer", without necessarily any artistic overtones.

Lyle Lovett is not listed, because he looks like a nice guy, and I've never actually felt like puking when I've seen him.

I've avoided mentioning Negroes because that wouldn't be fair, and such a list would be endless.



John Lydon has never pretended to be pretty or even been marketed like that. Just saying!


Re: Lydon, and rotten Ugliness

Definitely maybe true.

I did consider that. But he is packaged and sold as a certain type of 'beauty". He's marketed as a "brutally honest" type, which I don't find him to be at all. (Though I believe he is very good to his friends, and has a real concern for children. But I'm not discussing his private life, but his public career, as a kikish prawdakt of his kike biz.)

He does try to make himself even uglier than his natural repulsiveness, and I find that offensive. I did debate whether it was "fair" to mention his looks, since he doeasn't pretend to be "pretty", of course; but he does meet the criteria....

The main, most immediate, criterion, is of course physical. But there's more. I find him repulsive for his attitude, posturing, rudeness, politics, aesthetics, beliefs, etc.

I think he really showed what his ugliness when he was interviewed with that Kike Levine by Tom Snyder. He could always use the stupidity of previous interviewers as an "excuse" for his behaviourial ugliness, but Snyder was a very decent person -- always polite, humble and friendly -- and always left room for the interviewees to express themselves and reveal whatever creativity and intelligence they have. With Snyder, Lydon how shallow he is and what a phoney he is. And that makes him extra repulsive, since he sells himself as a prawdakt of "Integrity".

There are a few reasons I wrote this poor excuse for an article. I won't get into them all, but one reason is about how with certain people their appearance is so overwhelmingly beautiful or ugly that it distracts from their singing when you look at them, and the viewing is therefore worlds away from the experience of just listening to them. Lydon seems to meet that criteria for me. I have seen him live, close-up, and almost all I could think about was how ugly he not only is, but how ugly he makes himself. I partly find it offensive, but also intellectually distracting, as I was constantly thinking about visual aethetics and the psychological, philosophical and artistic need for Beauty in art/performance. I was also wondering is he could ever look "pleasant" or "presentable" anyway. But then I think about Lyle Lovett, and how his inner beauty comes across even as the viewer is thinking about how far he is from The Ideal. Lovett has a certain nobility, and if one watches him singing (or at least in my case watching him; and I believe for most people who go to see him perform live), one finds oneself thinking about how his life must have been growing up, and that makes his performance more interesting, since he has a sort of tragic aura, in spite of his past financial and social and marital success. (I saw him when he was married to Julia Roberts, who doesn't appeal to me, but was always perceived as 'hot'.)

I hesitated to label Patti Smith as "ugly", because she was once very creative and talented. I do think it's interesting to note how physically ugly she is, because it's like a tribute to how talented she was, that she obviously never "made it" anywhere, anytime, based on her looks. (Though she was sold as "ugly = real. maaaan" in the Kike Biz.) It's also nothing you'll read on her wikipedia page or anything like that, but it would be crazy not to mention it in any serious biography of her. Also, she has certain very ugly aspects to her politicking and posturing.

I also hesitated to "label" Lorde, because she's so young (about 16-17 in those videos, I think); but on the other hand, she's very mouthy about putting other people down, and is filled with vinegary jealousy of beautiful women. For example, she insulted Selena Gomez and Taylor Swift, and then apologized, stating how much she admires Gomez and Swift as artists but had just put her down based on a political (self-described "feminist") perception of how Lorde had taken their lyrics and images. That all makes her ugly in about 100 ways. The politicization, the hypocrisy, the cravenness. The fact is she just wanted to promote hatred of Gomez and Swift because they is beautiful and she is ugly. (I mean that I am sure Lorde finds them extremely beautiful, but comes up with all sorts of twisted fembot "arguments" about how she is physically equal to them, while at the same finding herself doublethinkingly somehow More Beautiful, In An Equal Way -- the whole thing makes me sick.) The fact that she then stated she appreciates Gomez and Swift as artists (!?) just revealed her real motivation, and she made herself even uglier by then trying to hide her jealousy by invoking "feminist" pseudo-morality. So, even though I wouldn't normally label a foolish young woman as "ugly", and keeping in mind how difficult it is to grow up in public, I can't help but find her incredibly repulsive on multiple levels.

And why do I care about these "celebs" and their stupid feuds? I don't follow this stuff. I overhear people referring to it. I have trouble even remembering their names, and who's who, and who did what and said what. Then, every so often I take a look at what's going on in "our" pop culture, and what all these people are yapping about. Now this ugly bitch "Lorde Ya Ya Ya" strikes me as one of those people who will be foisted on us (especially will have her political opinions/"thoughts" foisted upon us) for years and years to come, and her ugly soul will influence yet another generation of ugly girls and eunuch boys.

Lorde, Feminist Culture Critic:

"I love pop music on a sonic level. But I'm a feminist and the theme of her song ['Come & Get It'] is, 'When you're ready come and get it from me.' I'm sick of women being portrayed this way." ... "I think there's a funny culture in music that's only happened over the last 15 years, and that is haters. That if you have an opinion about something in music which isn't 100-percent good, you're a hater, even if you have perfectly reasonable grounds for that critique. I mean, I don't think I say anything that isn't backed up."

"Taylor Swift is so flawless, and so unattainable, and I don't think it's breeding anything good in young girls." ... "She [Taylor Swift] was the first person I thought of, which I regret. She happens to be good looking, but I thinkshe actually uses her other imperfections in an incredibly powerful and relatable way. Taylor Swift has a very unique vision, which I admire."

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Please note that I added your comment in the above "article".

Whores in the Machine

So basically you're saying that people who are part of the machine but act as if they are alternative/"indie" are worse than the whores who know what they are?

Re: Whores in the Machine

You got it, sister.

Re: Re: Whores in the Machine

Feminism and the Spice Girls

The first and one of the most interesting articles used pertaining to the topic was “Spice World: Constructing Femininity the Popular Way” by Dafna Lemish. Lemish analyzes how the Spice Girls represent feminism, primarily to adoring young girls and fans, in many different aspects. The article brings light to several different perspectives towards how the Spice Girls represent feminism.

Girl power is not only an aspect of feminism, but it is also a major part of everything the Spice Girls represent. Their attractiveness feeds from their boundless energy, clear self-confidence and self-awareness, all three major aspects of girl power. The Spice Girls make it clear through various interviews, their movie and their book that their idea of girl power is accepting themselves for whom they are, celebrating who they are and not changing for anyone especially men. It is the idea of independence and demanding what they want. A major example is the song “Wannabe.” The girls are literally saying that they will tell “YOU” what they want.

Another major aspect of feminism, especially in the women’s liberation movement in the 1960’s, that the Spice Girls exude is sisterhood. The Spice Girl notion of sisterhood challenges patriarchy in three complementary ways. First, they offer an alternative to the popular stereotype of “bitchy” females who are in competition with each other for success and for men. Second, the group of five girls is a counter model to the very popular idea of a dominant, masculine “loner” such as James Bond. Finally, while “brotherhood” is often associated with war or gangs, the Spice Girls use the term sisterhood to create a positive constructive force. A final major theme discussed in the article was promiscuity. While generally being promiscuous could cause someone to lose respect or credibility, the Spice Girls challenge the tradition slut-virgin binary division of feminism. They provide girls with an alternative image of promiscuity by letting their own hints at nakedness not serve as signifiers of availability, but rather as signs of self-confidence and choice. They demand respect and refuse to be taken for granted even in the aspect of promiscuity.

“Girls’ n’ Spice: All Things Nice?” served as a great resource for this topic. Susan Douglas looks at both sides of the Spice Girl phenomenon and feminism before judging. She walks readers through each side. Starting by recognizing the debate of: Are these girls a group of no-talent, flash in pan bimbos whose success comes from a highly calculated and cynical marketing strategy that fuses bubblegum music with a pseudo feminist message or are they a refreshing fusion of politics and music that debunks antiquated stereotypes about feminism and helps empower young girls as they discover their sexuality

For the later point, Douglas recognizes many of the positive experiences and accomplishments attributed to the Spice Girls. Their song “Wannabe” topped the charts and broke various records. They involved themselves with politics and the press was very interested in their opinions. They claimed to have wholesome role models such as Margaret Thatcher. As to the negative aspects, Douglas recognized that the Spice Girls received much criticism claiming that they were talentless. There was even a website created called “SpiceSlap” in which the girls faces would pop out of a hole on the screen and web users could take turns slapping them.

Douglas mentioned that the girls were referred to as “mattel-doll look-alikes” from feminist, Andi Zeisler. Zeisler argued that when “giggly things whose strings are pulled by their male managers” utter pro-female sentiments it makes feminism seem vacuous and preposterous. She also argued that the girls devalued politics by posing as political voices. The article states that what is unique about the Spice Girls is that they insist of having things both ways by being sex objects while simultaneously critiquing patriarchal ways of looking at and thinking about young women.

Douglas recognizes that the only opinion of the Spice Girls that really matters is the one of their preteen fans. The Spice Girls tell them that they can imagine a world of love and respect where boys desire them, won’t mess with them. She concludes by saying that while is it easy to hold a group like the Spice Girls in contempt, it’s important to be wary when music embraced by teenage girls in ridiculed.

A third article pertaining to the Spice Girls and feminism is “I’ll Never Be Your Woman: The Spice Girls and New Flavours of Feminism”, by Tara Brabazon and Amanda Evans. The article assesses if the Spice Girls offer space for a new way of thinking about feminist theory and a new way of living feminist politics. The authors are clearly supporting that the Spice Girls do positive things in the world of feminism. They claim that the Spice Girls do for feminism what the Village People did for gay politics, which was grant a spirit, power and humor to the performance of difference.

However, the authors claim that the Spice Girls could never be feminism’s women. This is because they feel that “Girl Power” is fashionable and colorfully affirmative while feminism is the equivalent of a brown corduroy jacket with a patch at the elbow. In other words, they are establishing that feminism is given a boring and ugly name that the Spice Girls simply don’t fit into. Brabazon and Evans give the Spice Girls tons of credit. They discuss the parallels that the Spice Girls have with the Beatles and say that they feel like one of the reasons Spice Girls became so popular in the first place is because teenage girls feel like they are watching their friends.

Reasons the authors give for affirming that the Spice Girls fit in with feminist ideals are that they play roles in pop culture. One way they do this is by replacing the normal expectations of women with their song titles. For example, “Silence is Golden, but Shouting is Fun.” They also bring up the example of the girls’ music video, “Always Be There”, in which the girls play roles usually unexpected from women such as a James Bond character.

The authors of this article challenge those who ridicule the Spice Girls. They convey their overall opinion that the Spice Girls are a positive aspect to feminism by being bright, powerful, engaging and aggressive rather than the traditional boring, “body shop” feminists. They conclude by giving all power to the girls for being sassy enough to transform female empowerment into a popular culture anthem.

The final article reviewed was “Girl Culture, Revenge and Global Capitalism: Cyber Girls, Riot Grrls and Spice Girls”, by Catherine Driscoll. Driscoll wants to discover if the groups have provided any new kind of relationship between girls, feminism and popular culture. In her focus on the Spice Girls, she makes a point that she is not interested if they have talent or not, but that she is interested in what the relationship between girls and the Spice Girls is supposed to be. Readers find that it a difficult relationship to define after reading about the controversy Driscoll provides. She mentions that the girls were the butt of many jokes at the 1997 MTV Awards Show, not exactly empowering for girls watching.

However, this group that is ridiculed by fellow celebs sells millions of albums and is primarily marketed to girls with t-shirts, books, movies, etc. Every multimedia platform possible has been filled with Spice Girl phenomena. As for attitude, the Spice Girls are figured for acting however they want to act, especially when they are doing something they shouldn’t be. For example, the girls cause mischief in their “Wannabe” music video. Spice Girls belong to girls. From the feminist viewpoint they belong to a group wrapped up in negotiating their own power and powerlessness through consumption. Driscoll believes that consumption is one of the main problems related to the Spice Girls.

Overall, Driscoll conveys a negative viewpoint towards the Spice Girls relationship with feminism. She refers to the Frankfurt School referring to girls as exemplary dupes. It seems as though she feels the Spice Girls add to that reputation. She concludes with saying that Spice Girls produce some strange mixed messages in that they talk about feminism in a popular field and that they also talk about how the things they say and do may or may not be feminist. She recognizes a shift in dominant paradigms of cultural production directed to girls."

Works Cited

Brabazon, Tara, and Amanda Evans. “I’ll Never Be Your Woman: The Spice Girls and New Flavours of Feminism.” Social Alternatives 17.2 (1998): 39-42. Print.

Douglas, Susan J. “Girls’ N Spice: All Things Nice?” Ed. Roger Stahl. Rhetoric and Popular Culture. Sandiego, CA: University Readers, 2012. 101-05. Print.

Driscoll, Catherine. “Girl Culture, Revenge and Global Capitalism: Cyber Girls, Riot Grrls and Spice Girls.” Australian Feminist Studies. 29th ed. Vol. 14. Carfax, 1999. Web.

Lemish, Dafna. “Spice World: Constructing Femininity the Popular Way.” Popular Music and Society 26.1 (2003): 17-29. Web.

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Please note that I added your comment in the above "article".

No worries mate. Even as I typed those words the other day I dwelt upon the works of John Lydon or rather the persona. The trouble is he's been a celebrity for a long time now, rather than a singer/songwriter. An anti-celebrity - that's the product he's been flogging> Typing that comment I was buying into his product no matter whether I was pedantically correct or not.

Did she used to be a man?

You forgot Jessie J.?



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